I'm glad this story had a happy ending, but as a therapist, I've recommended the burnt haystack dating method to clients. Just FYI. I feel vicarious dating fatigue from watching my clients give men the benefit of the doubt over and over and over and over when they would have been better off cutting their losses and moving on. Sorry for being a totally cynical asshole, but I would say it's still too soon to know whether this guy is a jerk. I hope for your sake that he's not, but one good night isn't enough data to conclude that he's not a jerk, sadly, as the experience with the energy healer demonstrated.
Oh for sure. I certainly haven't concluded he's NOT a jerk. I just don't think I can conclude yet that he IS. haha. I like Burned Haystack too, and I find Jennie's analyses totally fascinating!! I do think though it's not really meant for people like me -- she makes it clear that it's for women wanting to find long-term monogamous partners. I'm not that, at least not right now.
Good point about burnt haystack being intended for long-term monogamy. I just want to say that as a therapist, I support you in making snap judgments in the future if you want to. ❤️ You don't owe it to any guy to give him a chance if you think he's blowing you off, since 9 times out of 10, that's probably exactly what he's doing.
Even a few months of good dating isn't enough data. I tell my clients that it takes time for someone to truly reveal who they are. And it takes them to stay objective and pay attention. Too many times, wishful thinking gets the best of people.
I am ENM and find Burned Haystack to be enormously useful to cope with the morass that is online dating. It saves me massive amounts of time and emotional energy. I started applying it more rigorously a few months ago and, aside from one no-show, I’ve only had positive dating experiences since then. Some I wasn’t attracted to (and we had perfectly polite “no thank you” communication post-date), one we had an amazing date but weren’t compatible in bed (and still had healthy communication during and after that night), and I now have three ongoing lovers who delight me. Gone are the dates where some dude is sliding his hand up my thigh without asking, or the ones where they get explosive/defensive when I decline a second date, not to mention allllll of the other pain when I gave benefit of the doubt when I saw hints of problematic comments even before meeting up. Even though it’s designed for monogamy, I can still apply the principles on Feeld and Tinder. In short, I only bend the Haystack rule about talking about sex. If he talks about sex topics in a manner that’s socially appropriate say in talking to a close friend, that’s a go (like sharing and asking generally about preferences but without actually engaging me in sexual talk). If he talks to me as though we’re already lovers sexting (and without any discussion/consent), that’s a quick block.
Yes, this makes sense! I bend the rules for respectful sex talk too. I think Jennie’s approaches seem quite sound, but sometimes I read the comments by other community members and I feel like they take things a little far. (In part because I don’t always think they are applying the method properly.)
Also I recently "broke things off" with a guy I had matched with months ago and it just was never leading to a date. I really loved the potential with him (we had very similar taste in music and would send songs back and forth) but every time I suggested a meetup he couldn't do it. He has a demanding job so I understood at first but eventually I just felt like he wasn't motivated enough to make it happen and if it was ALREADY this hard and we hadn't even met, it was unlikely to get easier. So I let him go so my heart had room for someone new who would make meeting me in person an actual priority.
This makes total sense! Good for you!!! I think that was a smart move. This guy and I did meet for a brief public date pretty early on (maybe a week after we started texting?), which helped to solidify him as real and actually interested, but then it took a while to schedule a second and third date .... that's when I started losing faith.
I am quite interested how this worked out. I do not care how attractive they are, if they are on Tinder and haven't been tested then that is a NO from me.
I feel this post so much. I also have been following Burned Haystack but like you struggle with how to apply it given I'm not looking for a long-term relationship. Also, just this week I matched with a guy who was way too hot and I sensed it wasn't real and sure enough it wasn't. Aka I'm pretty sure he was using someone else's photos and when I asked him to send me additional photos to prove he was real, he failed. So yeah, I'm still cautious because for some reason there are a lot of fakers out there. I'm not really sure what they are after. Photos of us? The chance to flirt with a pretty woman and pretend to be someone that person wants to f*@&? Dear God. It was a waste of an hour of my time.
Honestly the whole combo of hot, good at sex, "curious, respectful, thoughtful" is the biggest red flag because why aren't you snapped up already haha. But I understand that is backward and cynical and overly monogamy-focused and basically the entire point of this post!
Excited about this development about possibly dating women. Looking forward forward to hearing what happens next on that front! I think it will be very different.
I've watched so many catfished documentaries that I automatically assume that a guy who's too good-looking is actually some dude sitting at a hut in Nigeria pretending to be a wealthy, handsome savior. LOL. Also, I quit Tinder and all other apps and made myself talk to people in real life.
I hope that last paragraph gets its own post!!!
I'm glad this story had a happy ending, but as a therapist, I've recommended the burnt haystack dating method to clients. Just FYI. I feel vicarious dating fatigue from watching my clients give men the benefit of the doubt over and over and over and over when they would have been better off cutting their losses and moving on. Sorry for being a totally cynical asshole, but I would say it's still too soon to know whether this guy is a jerk. I hope for your sake that he's not, but one good night isn't enough data to conclude that he's not a jerk, sadly, as the experience with the energy healer demonstrated.
Oh for sure. I certainly haven't concluded he's NOT a jerk. I just don't think I can conclude yet that he IS. haha. I like Burned Haystack too, and I find Jennie's analyses totally fascinating!! I do think though it's not really meant for people like me -- she makes it clear that it's for women wanting to find long-term monogamous partners. I'm not that, at least not right now.
Good point about burnt haystack being intended for long-term monogamy. I just want to say that as a therapist, I support you in making snap judgments in the future if you want to. ❤️ You don't owe it to any guy to give him a chance if you think he's blowing you off, since 9 times out of 10, that's probably exactly what he's doing.
Oh don't worry, I never feel obligated to continue conversations with guys if I don't want to!
Even a few months of good dating isn't enough data. I tell my clients that it takes time for someone to truly reveal who they are. And it takes them to stay objective and pay attention. Too many times, wishful thinking gets the best of people.
And we all hope for the deets of the first hook up. Because most of your readers, I think, are sort of vicariously single when we read your work.
I am ENM and find Burned Haystack to be enormously useful to cope with the morass that is online dating. It saves me massive amounts of time and emotional energy. I started applying it more rigorously a few months ago and, aside from one no-show, I’ve only had positive dating experiences since then. Some I wasn’t attracted to (and we had perfectly polite “no thank you” communication post-date), one we had an amazing date but weren’t compatible in bed (and still had healthy communication during and after that night), and I now have three ongoing lovers who delight me. Gone are the dates where some dude is sliding his hand up my thigh without asking, or the ones where they get explosive/defensive when I decline a second date, not to mention allllll of the other pain when I gave benefit of the doubt when I saw hints of problematic comments even before meeting up. Even though it’s designed for monogamy, I can still apply the principles on Feeld and Tinder. In short, I only bend the Haystack rule about talking about sex. If he talks about sex topics in a manner that’s socially appropriate say in talking to a close friend, that’s a go (like sharing and asking generally about preferences but without actually engaging me in sexual talk). If he talks to me as though we’re already lovers sexting (and without any discussion/consent), that’s a quick block.
Yes, this makes sense! I bend the rules for respectful sex talk too. I think Jennie’s approaches seem quite sound, but sometimes I read the comments by other community members and I feel like they take things a little far. (In part because I don’t always think they are applying the method properly.)
Also I recently "broke things off" with a guy I had matched with months ago and it just was never leading to a date. I really loved the potential with him (we had very similar taste in music and would send songs back and forth) but every time I suggested a meetup he couldn't do it. He has a demanding job so I understood at first but eventually I just felt like he wasn't motivated enough to make it happen and if it was ALREADY this hard and we hadn't even met, it was unlikely to get easier. So I let him go so my heart had room for someone new who would make meeting me in person an actual priority.
This makes total sense! Good for you!!! I think that was a smart move. This guy and I did meet for a brief public date pretty early on (maybe a week after we started texting?), which helped to solidify him as real and actually interested, but then it took a while to schedule a second and third date .... that's when I started losing faith.
I am quite interested how this worked out. I do not care how attractive they are, if they are on Tinder and haven't been tested then that is a NO from me.
Yes, glad to hear from you. Good luck and we are looking forward to hearing
what is next. I think your words (and your therapist’s advice) are wise in this situation.
I feel this post so much. I also have been following Burned Haystack but like you struggle with how to apply it given I'm not looking for a long-term relationship. Also, just this week I matched with a guy who was way too hot and I sensed it wasn't real and sure enough it wasn't. Aka I'm pretty sure he was using someone else's photos and when I asked him to send me additional photos to prove he was real, he failed. So yeah, I'm still cautious because for some reason there are a lot of fakers out there. I'm not really sure what they are after. Photos of us? The chance to flirt with a pretty woman and pretend to be someone that person wants to f*@&? Dear God. It was a waste of an hour of my time.
Ugh, I'm sorry this happened to you. I hear that so many profiles are fake... I feel like I'm not very good at deciphering which ones are which yet.
I'm so happy you're back!
Honestly the whole combo of hot, good at sex, "curious, respectful, thoughtful" is the biggest red flag because why aren't you snapped up already haha. But I understand that is backward and cynical and overly monogamy-focused and basically the entire point of this post!
Yes I have thought about this too! I think his busyness might be part of it, honestly!
Excited about this development about possibly dating women. Looking forward forward to hearing what happens next on that front! I think it will be very different.
Glad to hear from you!
Of course we all want to see this hot man’s photo. To see if he’s ubiquitously gorgeous.
I love love love your boundary setting with STI testing
Never heard of the Burnt Haystack method before - sounds like a bottomless pit of doubt and fear.
I've watched so many catfished documentaries that I automatically assume that a guy who's too good-looking is actually some dude sitting at a hut in Nigeria pretending to be a wealthy, handsome savior. LOL. Also, I quit Tinder and all other apps and made myself talk to people in real life.